Channel 1 Los Angeles
10/23/2020 Nashville
America will decide who will lead the country, here is the debate transcription:
Donald Trump:
So as you know, 2.2 million people modeled out, were expected to die. We closed up the greatest economy in the world in order to fight this horrible disease that came from China. It’s a worldwide pandemic. It’s all over the world. You see the spikes in Europe and many other places right now. If you notice, the mortality rate is down 85%. The excess mortality rate is way down and much lower than almost any other country. And we’re fighting it and we’re fighting it hard. There is a spike. There was a spike in Florida and it’s now gone.
Donald Trump:
There was a very big spike in Texas. It’s now gone. There was a very big spike in Arizona. It’s now gone. And there was some spikes and surges and other places, they will soon be gone. We have a vaccine that’s coming. It’s ready. It’s going to be announced within weeks. And it’s going to be delivered. We have Operation Warp Speed, which is the military is going to distribute the vaccine.
Donald Trump:
I can tell you from personal experience, I was in the hospital. I had it and I got better. And I will tell you that I had something that they gave me, a therapeutic, I guess they would call it. Some people could say it was a cure, but I was in for a short period of time. And I got better very fast or I wouldn’t be here tonight. And now they say I’m immune. Whether it’s four months or a lifetime, nobody’s been able to say that, but I’m immune. More and more people are getting better. We have a problem that’s a worldwide problem. This is a worldwide problem, but I’ve been congratulated by the heads of many countries on what we’ve been able to do. If you take a look at what we’ve done in terms of goggles and masks and gowns and everything else, and in particular ventilators we’re now making ventilators all over the world, thousands and thousands a month distributing them all over the world. It will go away. And as I say, we’re rounding the turn. We’re rounding the corner. It’s going away.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. Former Vice President Biden to you. How would you lead the country out of this crisis? You have two minutes uninterrupted.
Joe Biden:
220,000 Americans dead. You hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this. Anyone who is responsible for not taking control. In fact, not saying I take no responsibility initially. Anyone is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America. We’re in a situation where there are a thousand deaths a day now. A thousand deaths a day. And there are over 70,000 new cases per day. Compared to what’s going on in Europe as the New England Medical Journal said, they’re starting from a very low rate. We’re starting from a very high rate.
Joe Biden:
The expectation is we’ll have another 200,000 Americans dead between now and the end of the year. If we just wore these masks, the president’s own advisors have told him, we can save a 100,000 lives. And we’re in a circumstance where the president thus far and still has no plan, no comprehensive plan.
Joe Biden:
What I would do is make sure we have everyone encouraged to wear a mask all the time. I would make sure we move into the direction of rapid testing, investing in rapid testing. I would make sure that we set up national standards as to how to open up schools and open up businesses so they can be safe and give them the wherewithal, the financial resources to be able to do that.
Joe Biden:
We’re in a situation now where the New England Medical Journal, one of the serious, most serious journals in the whole world said for the first time ever that the way this president has responded to this crisis has been absolutely tragic. And so folks, I will take care of this. I will end this. I will make sure we have a plan.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, I’d like to follow up with you and your comments. You talked about taking a therapeutic, I assume you’re referencing Regeneron. You also said a vaccine will be coming within weeks. Is that a guarantee?
Donald Trump:
No, it’s not a guarantee, but it will be by the end of the year. But I think it has a good chance. There are two companies, I think within a matter of weeks and it will be distributed very quickly.
Kristen Welker:
Can you tell us which companies?
Donald Trump:
Johnson & Johnson is doing very well. Moderna is doing very well. Pfizer is doing very well and we have numerous others. Then we also have others that we’re working on very closely with other countries, in particular Europe.
Kristen Welker:
Let me follow up with you and because this is new information. You have set a vaccine is coming soon within weeks now. Your own officials say, “It could take well into 2021 at the earliest for enough Americans to get vaccinated.” And even then they say, “The country will be wearing masks and distancing into 2022.” Is your timeline realistic?
Donald Trump:
No, I think my timeline is going to be more accurate. I don’t know that they’re counting on the military the way I do, but we have our generals lined up, one in particular that’s the head of logistics and this is a very easy distribution for him. He’s ready to go. As soon as we have the vaccine and we expect to have a 100 million vials. As soon as we have the vaccine, he’s ready to go.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden, your reaction. And just 40% of Americans say they would definitely agree to take a coronavirus vaccine if it was approved by the government. What steps would you take to give Americans confidence in a vaccine if it were approved?
Joe Biden:
Make sure it’s totally transparent. Have the scientists of the world see it, know it, look at it, go through all the processes. And by the way, this is the same fellow who told you, “This is going to end by Easter” last time. This is the same fellow who told you that, “Don’t worry, we’re going to end this by the summer.” We’re about to go into a dark winter, a dark winter and he has no clear plan. And there’s no prospect that there’s going to be a vaccine available for the majority of the American people before the middle of next year.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, your reaction. He says, you have no plan.
Donald Trump:
I don’t think we’re going to have a dark winter at all. We’re opening up our country. We’ve learned and studied and understand the disease, which we didn’t at the beginning. When I closed and banned China from coming in heavily infected and then ultimately Europe, but China was in January. Months later, he was saying I was xenophobic. I did it too soon. Now he’s saying, “Oh, I should have moved quicker,” but he didn’t move quicker. He was months behind me, many months behind me.
Donald Trump:
And frankly, he ran the H1N1 swine flu and it was a total disaster. Far less lethal, but it was a total disaster. Had that had this kind of numbers, 700,000 people would be dead right now, but it was a far less lethal disease. Look, his own person who ran that for him, who, as you know, was his chief of staff said, “It was catastrophic. It was horrible. We didn’t know what we were doing.” Now he comes up and he tells us how to do this.
Donald Trump:
Also, everything that he said about the way every single move that he said we should make, that’s what we’ve done. We’ve done all of it. But he was way behind us.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden, your response.
Joe Biden:
My response is he is xenophobic, but not because he shutdown access from China. And he did it late after 40 countries had already done that. In addition to that, what he did, he made sure that we had 44 people that were in there in China trying to get the Wuhan to determine what exactly the source was. What did the president say in January? He said, ” No.” He said, “He’s being transparent. The president of China is being transparent. We owe him a debt of gratitude. We have to thank him.”
Joe Biden:
And then what happened was we started talking about using the Defense Act to make sure we go out and get whatever is needed out there to protect people. And again, I go back to this. He had nothing, he did virtually nothing. And then he gets out of the hospital and he talks about, “Oh, don’t worry. It’s all going to be over soon.” Come on. There’s not another serious scientist in the world who thinks it’s going to be over soon.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, your reaction?
Joe Biden:
I didn’t say over soon. I say we’re learning to live with it. We have no choice. We can’t lock ourselves up in a basement like Joe does. He has the ability to lock himself up. I don’t know. He’s obviously made a lot of money someplace, but he has this thing about living in a basement. People can’t do that. By the way I as the president couldn’t do that. I’d love to put myself in the basement or in a beautiful room in the White House and go away for a year and a half until it disappears. I can’t do that.
Joe Biden:
And Kirsten, every meeting I had, every meeting I had and I’d meet a lot of families, including gold star families and military families. Every meeting I had and I had to meet them, I had to. It would be horrible to have canceled everything. I said, “This is dangerous and you catch it.” And I caught it. I learned a lot. I learned a lot. Great doctors, great hospitals. And now I recovered. 99.9 of young people recover. 99% of people recover. We have to recover-
Donald Trump:
99% of people recover. We have to recover. We can’t close up our nation. We have to open our school and we can’t close up our nation, or you’re not going to have a nation.
Kristen Welker:
And, of course, the CDC has said young people can get sick with COVID-19 and can pass it. Vice President Biden, I want to talk broadly about strategy though.
Joe Biden:
Can I respond to that?
Kristen Welker:
30 seconds, please. Then I have a question.
Joe Biden:
Number one, he says that we’re learning to live with it. People are learning to die with it. You folks home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning. That man or wife going to bed tonight and reaching over to try to touch, there out of habit, where their wife or husband was, is gone. Learning to live with it. Come on. We’re dying with it, because he’s never said. See, you said, “It’s dangerous.” When’s the last time? Is it really dangerous still? Are we dangerous. You tell the people it’s dangerous now. What should they do about the danger? And you say, “I take no responsibility.”
Kristen Welker:
Let me talk about your Tuesday-
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. I take full responsibility. It’s not my fault that it came here. It’s China’s fault. And you know what? It’s not Joe’s fault that it came here either. It’s China’s fault. They kept it from going into the rest of China for the most part, but they didn’t keep it from coming out to the world, including Europe and ourselves.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden.
Joe Biden:
The fact is that when we knew it was coming, when it hit, what happened? What did the President say? He said, “Don’t worry. It’s going to go away. It’ll be gone by Easter. Don’t worry. Warm weather. Don’t worry. Maybe inject bleach.” He said he was kidding when he said that, but a lot of people thought it was serious. A whole range of things the President has said, even today, he thinks we are in control. We’re about to lose 200,000 more people.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump.
Donald Trump:
Look, perhaps just to finish this, I was kidding on that, but just to finish this, when I closed he said I shouldn’t have closed. And that went on for months. Nancy Pelosi said the same thing. She was dancing on the streets in Chinatown, in San Francisco. But when I closed, he said, “This is a terrible thing, you xenophobic.” I think he called me racist even, because I was closing it to China. Now he says I should have closed it earlier. Joe, it doesn’t.
Joe Biden:
I didn’t say either of those things.
Donald Trump:
You certainly did. You certainly did.
Joe Biden:
I talked about his xenophobia in a different context. It wasn’t about closing the border to Chinese coming to the United States.
Kristen Welker:
All right, I want to talk about both of your different strategies to handling this.
Donald Trump:
He thought I shouldn’t have closed the border, that’s obvious.
Kristen Welker:
Do you want to respond to that quickly, Vice President Biden?
Joe Biden:
No.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. Let’s talk about your different strategies toward dealing with this. Mr. Vice President you suggested you would support new shutdowns if scientists recommended it. What do you say to Americans who are fearful that the cost of shutdowns, the impact on the economy, the higher rates of hunger, depression, domestic, and substance abuse outweighs the risk of exposure to the virus?
Joe Biden:
What I would say is, I’m going to shut down the virus, not the country. It’s his ineptitude that caused the country to have to shut down in large part, why businesses have gone under, why schools are closed, why so many people have lost their living, and why they’re concerned. Those other concerns are real. That’s why he should have been, instead of in a sand trap at his golf course, he should have been negotiating with Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats and Republicans about what to do about the acts they were passing for billions of dollars to make sure people had the capacity.
Kristen Welker:
But you haven’t ruled out more shut downs?
Joe Biden:
Oh, well, no. I’m not shutting down today, but there are … Look, you need standards. The standard is, if you have a reproduction rate in a community that’s above a certain level, everybody says, “Slow up. More social distancing. Do not open bars and do not open gymnasiums. Do not open until you get this under control, under more control.” But when you do open, give the people the capacity to be able to open and have the capacity to do it safely. For example, schools. Schools, they need a lot of money to be open. They need to deal with ventilation systems. They need to deal with smaller classes, more teachers, more pods, and he’s refused to support that money, or at least up to now.
Kristen Welker:
Let’s talk about schools, President Trump-
Donald Trump:
I think we have to respond, if I might.
Kristen Welker:
Please. And then I have a follow-up.
Donald Trump:
Thank you, and I appreciate that. Look, all he does is talk about shut downs. But forget about him. His Democrat Governors, Cuomo in New York, you look at what’s going on in California, you look at Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Democrats, Democrats all, they’re shut down so tight and they’re dying. They’re dying. And he supports all these people. All he talks about is shut downs. No, we’re not going to shut down. And we have to open our schools. And it’s like, as an example, I have a young son, he also tested positive. By the time I spoke to the doctor the second time, he was fine. It just went away. Young people, I guess, it’s their immune system.
Kristen Welker:
Let me follow up with you, President Trump. You’ve demanded schools open in person and insist they can do it safely. But just yesterday, Boston became the latest city to move its public school system entirely online after a coronavirus spike. What is your message to parents who worry that sending their children to school will endanger not only their kids but also their teachers and family?
Donald Trump:
I want to open the schools. The transmittal rate to the teachers is very small. But I want to open the schools. We have to open our country. We’re not going to have a country. You can’t do this. We can’t keep this country closed. This is a massive country with a massive economy. People are losing their jobs. They’re committing suicide. There’s depression, alcohol, drugs at a level that nobody’s ever seen before. There’s abuse, tremendous abuse. We have to open our country. I’ve said it often, the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself, and that’s what’s happening. And he wants to close down. He’ll close down the country if one person in our massive bureaucracy says we should close it down.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden, your response.
Joe Biden:
Simply not true. We ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. We ought to be able to safely open, but they need resources to open? You need to be able to, for example, if you’re going to open a business, have social distancing within the business. You need to have, if you have a restaurant, you need to have plexiglass dividers so people cannot infect one another. You need to be in a position where you can take testing rapidly and know whether the person is in fact infected. You need to be able to trace. You need to be able to provide all the resources that are needed to do this. And that is not inconsistent with saying that we’re going to make sure that we’re going to open safely. And by the way, all you teachers out there, not that many of you are going to die, so don’t worry about it. So don’t worry about it. Come on.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, let me follow up with you quickly.
Donald Trump:
By the way, I will say this, If you go and look at what’s happened to New York, it’s a ghost town. It’s a ghost town. And when you talk about plexiglass, these are restaurants that had dying. These are businesses with no money. Putting up plexiglass is unbelievably expensive, and it’s not the answer. I mean, you’re going to sit there in a cubicle wrapped around with plastic. These are businesses that are dying, Joe. You can’t do that to people. You just can’t. Take a look at New York and what’s happened to my wonderful city. For so many years, I loved it. It was vibrant. It’s dying. Everyone’s leaving New York.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden.
Joe Biden:
Take a look at what New York has done in terms of turning the curve down, in terms of the number of people dying. And I don’t look at this in terms of the way he does, blue states and red states. They’re all the United States. And look at the states that are having such a spike in the coronavirus. They’re the red states, they’re the states in the Midwest, they’re the states in the upper Midwest. That’s where the spike is occurring significantly. But they’re all Americans. They’re all Americans. And what we have to do is say, wear these masks, number one. Make sure we get the help that the businesses need. That money’s already been passed to do that. It’s been out there since the beginning of the summer, and nothing’s happened.
Donald Trump:
Kristen, New York has lost more than 40,000 people, 11,000 people in nursing homes.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, what about-
Donald Trump:
When you say spike, take a look at what’s happening in Pennsylvania where they’ve had it closed. Take a look at what’s happening with your friend in Michigan, where her husband’s the only one allowed to do anything. It’s been like a prison. Now, it was just ruled unconstitutional. Take a look at North Carolina, they’re having spikes and they’ve been closed, and they’re getting killed financially. We can’t let that happen, Joe. You can’t let that happen. We have to open up. And we understand the disease. We have to protect our seniors. We have to protect our elderly. We have to protect especially our seniors with heart problems and diabetes problems. And we will protect. We have the best testing in the world by far. That’s why we have so many cases.
Kristen Welker:
Let me follow up with you before we move on to our next section. President Trump, this week, you called Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s best known infectious disease expert “a disaster.” You described him and other medical experts as “idiots.” If you’re not listening to them, who are you listening to?
Donald Trump:
I’m listening to all of them, including Anthony. I get along very well with Anthony.
Donald Trump:
… think to all of them, including Anthony. I get along very well with Anthony, but he did say, “Don’t wear masks.” He did say, as you know, “This is not going to be a problem.” I think he’s a Democrat, but that’s okay. He said, “This is not going to be a problem. We are not going to have a problem at all.” When Joe says that I said, Anthony Fauci said, and others, and many others. And I’m not knocking him, nobody knew. Look, nobody knew what this thing was. Nobody knew where it was coming from, what it was. We’ve learned a lot. But Anthony said “Don’t wear masks,” now he wants to wear masks. Anthony also said, if you look back, exact words, here’s his exact words. “This is no problem. This is going to go away soon.” So he’s allowed to make mistakes. He happens to be a good person.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden, your response quickly, and then we’re going to move on to the next section.
Joe Biden:
My response is that think about what the President knew in January and didn’t tell the American people. He was told this was a serious virus that spread in the air, and it was much worse, much worse, than the flu. He went on record and said to one of your colleagues, recorded, that in fact he knew how dangerous it was but he didn’t want to tell us. He didn’t want to tell us because he didn’t want us to panic. He didn’t want us… Americans don’t panic. He panicked. But guess what, in the meantime, we find out in the New York Times the other day, that in fact his folks went to Wall Street and said, “This is a really dangerous thing.” And a memo out of that meeting — not from his administration, but from some of the brokers — said, “Sell short, because we’ve got to get moving. It’s a dangerous problem.”
Donald Trump:
Well, this is what I-
Kristen Welker:
I’m going to give you 30 seconds to respond and then we’re going to move on.
Donald Trump:
[crosstalk 00:28:34] I don’t know. Somebody went through Wall Street. You’re the one that takes all the money from Wall Street. I don’t take it.
Joe Biden:
I haven’t-
Donald Trump:
Joe, you have raised a lot of money, tremendous amounts of money. And every time you raise money deals are made, Joe. I could raise so much more money. As President, and as somebody that knows most of those people, I could call the heads of Wall Street, the heads of every company in America. I would blow away every record. But I don’t want to do that because it puts me in a bad position. And then you bring up Wall Street? You shouldn’t be bringing up Wall Street, because you’re the one that takes the money from Wall Street, not me. I could blow away your records like you wouldn’t believe. We don’t need money. We have plenty of money. In fact, we beat Hillary Clinton with a tiny fraction of the money that she was able to
Kristen Welker:
All right, gentlemen, we’re going to move on.
Donald Trump:
Don’t tell me about
Joe Biden:
Average contribution, $43.
Kristen Welker:
All right. We’re going to move on to our next section, which is national security. And I do want to start with the security of our elections and some breaking news from overnight. Just last night, top intelligence officials confirmed again that both Russia and Iran are working to influence this election. Both countries have obtained US voter registration information, these officials say, and Iran sent intimidating messages to Florida voters. This question goes to you, Mr. Vice President. What would you do to put an end to this threat? You have two minutes, uninterrupted.
Joe Biden:
I made it clear and I asked everyone else to take the pledge. I made it clear that any country, no matter who it is, that interferes in American elections will pay a price. They will pay a price. And it’s been overwhelmingly clear this election — I won’t even get into the last one — this election, that Russia has been involved, China’s been involved to some degree, and now we learn that Iran is involved. They will pay a price if I’m elected. They’re interfering with American sovereignty. That’s what’s going on right now. They’re interfering with American sovereignty.
Joe Biden:
And to the best of my knowledge, I don’t think the President has said anything to Putin about it. I don’t think he’s talking to them a lot. I don’t think he’s said a word. I don’t know why he hasn’t said a word to Putin about it, and I don’t know what he has recently said, if anything, to the Iranians. My guess is he’d probably be more outspoken with regard to the Iranians.
Joe Biden:
But the point is this, folks. We are in a situation where we have foreign countries trying to interfere in the outcome of our election. His own National Security Advisor told him that what is happening with his buddy… Well, I shouldn’t… Well, I will. His buddy Rudy Giuliani. He’s being used as a Russian pawn. He’s being fed information that is Russian that is not true. And then what happens? Nothing happens. And then you find out that everything that’s going on here, about Russia is wanting to make sure that I do not get elected the next President of the United States, because they know I know them, and they know me.
Joe Biden:
I don’t understand why this President is unwilling to take on Putin when he’s actually paying bounties to kill American soldiers in Afghanistan, when he’s engaged in activities that are trying to destabilize all of NATO. I don’t know why he doesn’t do it, but it’s worth asking the question. Why isn’t that being done? Any country that interferes with us will, in fact, pay a price, because they’re affecting our sovereignty.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, same question to you. [crosstalk 00:31:48] Let me ask the question. You’re going to have two minutes to respond. For two elections in a row now, there has been substantial interference from foreign adversaries. What would you do in your next term to put an end to this? Two minutes, uninterrupted.
Donald Trump:
Well, let me respond to the first part, as Joe answered. Joe got $3.5 million from Russia and it came through Putin, because he was very friendly with the former mayor of Moscow and it was the mayor of Moscow’s wife. And you got $3.5 million. Your family got $3.5 million. And someday you’re going to have to explain, why did you get three and a half? I never got any money from Russia. I don’t get money from Russia.
Donald Trump:
Now, about your thing last night. I knew all about that. And through John — who is John Ratcliffe, who is fantastic, DNI — he said the one thing that’s common to both of them.
Donald Trump:
They both want you to lose because there has been nobody tougher to Russia between the sanctions, nobody tougher than me on Russia, between the sanctions, between all of what I’ve done with NATO. I’ve got the NATO countries to put up an extra $130 billion going to $420 billion a year. That’s to guard against Russia. I sold, while he was selling pillows and sheets, I sold tank busters to Ukraine. There has been nobody tougher on Russia than Donald Trump.
Donald Trump:
And I’ll tell you, they were so bad. They took over the submarine port, you remember that very well, during your term, during you and Barack Obama. They took over a big part of what should have been Ukraine. You handed it to them. But you were getting a lot of money from Russia. They were paying you a lot of money, and they probably still are. But now, with what came out today, it’s even worse. All of the emails, the emails, the horrible emails of the kind of money that you were raking in, you and your family. And Joe, you were vice-president when some of this was happening, and it should have never happened. And I think you owe an explanation to the American people. Why is it, somebody just had a news conference a little while ago who was essentially supposed to work with you and your family, but what he said was damning. And regardless of me, I think you have to clean it up and talk to the American people. Maybe you can do it right now.
Kristen Welker:
Vice-President Biden, you may respond-
Joe Biden:
[crosstalk 00:01:31].
Kristen Welker:
… and then I do want to follow up on the election security.
Joe Biden:
I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life. We learned that this president paid 50 times the tax in China as a secret bank account with China, does business in China, and in fact, is talking about me taking money? I have not taken a single penny from any country, whatsoever, ever, number one.
Joe Biden:
Number two, this is a president… I have released all of my tax returns, 22 years, go look at them, 22 years of my tax return. You have not released a single solitary year of your tax return. What are you hiding? Why are you unwilling? The foreign countries are paying you a lot. Russia’s paying you a lot. China’s paying you a lot on your hotels and all your businesses all around the country, all around the world. And China’s building a new road to a new golf course you have overseas. So, what’s going on here? Release your tax return or stop talking about corruption.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, your response.
Donald Trump:
First of all, I called my accountants, underwrote it, I’m going to release them as soon as we can. I want to do it. And it’ll show how successful, how great this company is. But much more importantly than that, people were saying $750. I asked them a week ago, I said, “What did I pay?” They said, “Sir, you prepaid tens of millions of dollars.” I prepaid my tax, over the last number of years, tens of millions of dollars, I prepaid, because at some point, they think it’s an estimate. They think I may have to pay tax. So I already prepaid it. Nobody told me that. Nobody told you that.
Kristen Welker:
Did your accountant tell you [crosstalk]?
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. And it wasn’t written. Whenever they write this, they keep talking about $750, which I think is a filing fee, but let me just tell you, I prepaid millions and millions of dollars in taxes, number one.
Donald Trump:
Number two, I don’t make money from China. You do. I don’t make money from Ukraine. You do. I don’t make money from Russia. You made $3.5 million, Joe, and your son gave you, they even have a statement that we have to give 10% to the big man. You’re the big man, I think. I don’t know, maybe you’re not, but you’re the big man, I think. Your son said we have to give 10% to the big men. Joe, what’s that all about? It’s terrible.
Kristen Welker:
All right, gentlemen. I want to ask you both some questions about all of this, but…
Joe Biden:
I have to respond to that.
Kristen Welker:
I’m going to let you both respond very quickly. You just said you spoke to your accountant about potentially releasing your taxes, did he tell you when you can release them? Do you have a deadline for when you’re going to release them to the American people?
Donald Trump:
As soon as the auditors finish. I get treated worse than the tea party got treated, because I have a lot of people in there-
Kristen Welker:
[crosstalk ].
Donald Trump:
… deep down in the IRS, they treat me horribly. We made a deal, it was all settled until I decide to run for president. I get treated very badly by the IRS, very unfairly, but we had a deal all done. As soon as we’re completed with the deal, I want to release it, but I have paid millions and millions of dollars and it’s worse than paying. I paid in advance. It’s called prepaying your taxes. I paid [crosstalk}
Kristen Welker:
Okay. I want to ask you both about questions regarding your potential foreign entanglements and questions that have been raised to give you both a chance to talk about this more broadly. Respond very quickly, and then I’ll get to my question.
Joe Biden:
Why did he… he’s been saying this for four years, show us, just show us, stop playing around. You’ve been saying for four years you’re going to release your taxes.
Donald Trump:
Everybody knows.
Joe Biden:
Nobody knows, Mr. President. What they do know is you’re not paying your taxes, or you’re paying taxes that are so low, when last time he said, what he paid, he said, I only pay that little because I’m smart. I know how to game the system. Come on. Come on, folks.
Donald Trump:
So…
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, and then I want to get to two questions to both of you on this.
Joe Biden:
Sure.
Donald Trump:
I was put through a phony witch hunt for three years. It started before I even got elected. They spied of my campaign. No president should ever have to go through what I went through. Let me just say this, Mueller and 18 angry Democrats and FBI agents all over the place spent $48 million. They went through everything I had, including my tax returns, and they found absolutely no collusion and nothing wrong. $48 million. I guarantee you, if I spent $1 million on you, Joe, I could find plenty wrong because the kind of things-
Kristen Welker:
All right.
Donald Trump:
… that you’ve done and the kind of monies that your family has taken, I mean, your brother made money in Iraq-
Kristen Welker:
Let me…
Donald Trump:
… millions of dollars. Your other brother made a fortune, and it’s all through you, Joe. And they say you get some of it. And you do live very well, you have houses all over the place. You live very well.
Kristen Welker:
All right, gentlemen. Let me just ask some questions about all of this broadly. Vice-President Biden, there have been questions about the work your son has done in China and for a Ukrainian energy company when you were vice-president, in retrospect, was anything about those relationships inappropriate or unethical?
Joe Biden:
Nothing was unethical. Here’s what the deal. With regard to Ukraine. We had this whole question about whether or not, because he was on the board, I later learned of Burisma, a company that somehow, I had done something wrong, yet every single solitary person, when he was going through his impeachment, testifying under oath, who work for him, said I did my job impeccably. I carried out U.S. policy, not one single solitary thing was out of line, not a single thing, number one.
Joe Biden:
Number two, the guy who got in trouble in Ukraine was this guy trying to bribe the Ukrainian government to say something negative about me, which they would not do and did not do because it never ever, ever happened. My son has not made money in terms of this thing about, what are you talking about, China. I have not had… the only guy who made money from China is this guy. He’s the only one. Nobody else has made money from China.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump-
Donald Trump:
Kristen Welker:
… let me ask my question to you
Donald Trump:
But could I just one thing?
Kristen Welker:
Very quickly.
Donald Trump:
His son didn’t have a job for a long time, was, sadly, no longer in the military service, I won’t get into that, and he didn’t have a job. As soon as he became vice-president, Burisma, not the best reputation in the world, I hear they paid him $183,000 a month, listen to this, $183,000, and they gave him a $3 million upfront payment, and he had no energy experience. That’s 100% dishonest.
Kristen Welker:
All right. I’m going to let the vice-president respond to that quickly, and then I need to get to a question to you. Very quickly, Mr. Vice-President.
Joe Biden:
No basis for that. Everybody investigated that. No one said anything he did was wrong in Ukraine.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. President Trump, this is for you. Since you took office, you’ve never divested from your business. You’ve personally promoted your properties abroad. A report this week, which was referenced, does indicate that your company has a bank account in China. So how can voters know that you don’t have any foreign conflicts of interest?
Donald Trump:
I have many bank accounts and they’re all listed and they’re all over the place. I mean, I was a businessman doing business. The bank account you’re referring to, which is, everybody knows about it, it’s listed, the bank account was in 2013. That’s what it was. It was opened. It was closed in 2015, I believe. And then I decided, because I was going to do… I was thinking about doing a deal in China, like millions of other people, I was thinking about it and I decided I’m not going to do it, didn’t like it, I decided not to do it, had an account open and I closed it.
Kristen Welker:
Okay.
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. And then, unlike him where he’s vice-president and he does business, I then decided to run for president after that. That was before. So I closed it before I even ran for president, let alone became president, big difference. He is the vice-president of the United States and his son, his brother, and his other brother are getting rich. They’re like a vacuum cleaner. They’re sucking up money
Kristen Welker:
Okay. President Trump, thank you. We do need to move on.
Joe Biden:
Not true.
Kristen Welker:
I do want to ask you, Vice-President Biden, about China. Let’s talk about China more broadly. There have, of course, President Trump has said that they should pay for not being fully transparent in regards to the coronavirus. If you were president, would you make China pay? And please be specific, what would that look like?
Joe Biden:
What I’d make China do is play by the international rules, not like he has done. He has caused the deficit of the China to go up, not down, with China, up, not down. We are making sure that in order to do business in China, you have to give all your intellectual property. You have to have a partner in China. It’s 51%, we would not do that at all, number one.
Joe Biden:
Number two, we’re in a situation where China would have to play by the rules internationally as well. When I met with Xi and when I was still vice-president, he said we’re setting up air identification zones in the South China Sea. You can’t fly through them. I said we’re going to fly through them. We just flew B-52, B-1 bombers through it. We’re not going to pay attention. They have to play by the rules. And what’s he do? He embraces guys like the thugs, like in North Korea and the Chinese president and Putin and others, and he pokes his finger [inaudible ] all of our friends, all of our allies. We make up only… we’re 25%, 25% of the world’s economy. We need to be having the rest of our friends with us saying to China, “These are the rules. You play by them, or you’re going to pay the price for not paying by them economically.”
Joe Biden:
That’s the way I will run it, and that’s what we did and upholding steel tariffs and a range of other things when we were president and vice-president.
Kristen Welker:
All right. Let’s talk about North Korea.
Donald Trump:
No, no, no.
Kristen Welker:
Let…
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. No, I have to…
Joe Biden:
… and Vice President.
Kristen Welker:
All right, let’s talk about North Korea-
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. No, I have to respond to that.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. Very quickly, and then we’re going to move on to North Korea.
Donald Trump:
His son walked out with a billion and a half dollars from China to …
Joe Biden:
Not true.
Donald Trump:
… after spending 10 minutes in office and being in Air Force Two. Number one. Number two, there’s a very strong email talking about your family wanting to make $10 million a year for introductions.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, on China policy-
Joe Biden:
That’s not true.
Kristen Welker:
… though, what specifically-
Donald Trump:
No, but wait a minute.
Kristen Welker:
What are you going to do, what specifically are you going to do to make China pay? You’ve said you’re going to make them pay.
Donald Trump:
First of all, China is paying. They’re paying billions and billions of dollars. I just gave $28 billion.
Kristen Welker:
New sanctions?
Donald Trump:
I just gave $28 billion to our farmers.
Joe Biden:
Tax payer’s money.
Donald Trump:
It’s what?
Joe Biden:
Taxpayer’s money. Didn’t come from China.
Donald Trump:
No, no. You know who the taxpayer is? It’s called China.
Joe Biden:
Not true.
Donald Trump:
China pays 28 billion, and you know what they did to pay it, Joe? They devalued their currency and they also paid up, and you know got the money? Our farmers, our great farmers, because they were targeted. You never charged them anything. Also, I charged them 25% on dumped steel, because they were killing our steel industry. We were not going to have a steel industry.
Kristen Welker:
Okay.
Donald Trump:
And now we have a steel industry.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. Vice President Biden, your response, please.
Joe Biden:
My response is, look, there’s a reason why he’s bringing up all this malarkey. There’s a reason for it. He doesn’t want to talk about the substantive issues. It’s not about his family and my family. It’s about your family, and your family’s hurting badly. If you’re a middle-class family, you’re getting hurt badly right now. You’re sitting at the kitchen table this morning deciding, “Well, we can’t get new tires. They’re bald, because we have to wait another month or so.” Or, “Are we going to be able to pay the mortgage?” Or, “Who’s going to tell her she can’t go back to community college?” They’re the decisions you’re making, and the middle-class families like I grew up in Scranton and Claymont, they’re in trouble. We should be talking about your families, but that’s the last thing he wants to talk about.
Donald Trump:
That is a typical statement.
Joe Biden:
I want to talk about North Korea.
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. Just for one second, please.
Kristen Welker:
10 seconds, Mr. President. 10 seconds.
Donald Trump:
That’s a typical political statement. Let’s get off this China thing, and then he looks, “The family around the table, everything.” Just a typical politician when I see that. I’m not a typical politician.
Kristen Welker:
Let’s talk about North Korea now.
Donald Trump:
That’s why I got elected. Let’s get off the subject of China. Let’s talk about sitting around the table. Come on, Joe. You could do better.
Kristen Welker:
We’re going to talk about North Korea now. President Trump, you’ve met with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un three times. You’ve talked about your beautiful letters with him. You’ve touted the fact that there hasn’t been a war or a long range missile test, and yet North Korea recently rolled out its biggest ever intercontinental ballistic missile and continues to develop its nuclear arsenal. Do you see that as a betrayal of the relationship you forged.
Donald Trump:
No.
Kristen Welker:
Just 30 seconds here because we need to get onto the next topic.
Donald Trump:
So when I met with Barack Obama, we sat in the White House, right at the beginning, had a great conversation. Was supposed to be 15 minutes and it was well over an hour. He said, “The biggest problem we have is North Korea.” He indicated we will be in a war with North Korea. Guess what? It would be a nuclear war. And he does have plenty of nuclear capability. In the meantime, I have a very good relationship with him. Different kind of a guy, but he probably thinks the same thing about me. We have a different kind of a relationship. We have a very good relationship and there’s no war. And about two months ago, he broke into a certain area. They said, “Oh, there’s going to be trouble.” I said, “No, they’re not, because he’s not going to do that.” And I was right. Look, instead of being in a war where millions of people, Seoul is 25 miles away, millions and millions, 32 million people. Millions of people would be dead right now. We don’t have a war and I have a good relationship.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, that’s 30 seconds. Vice President Biden to you. North Korea conducted four nuclear tests under the Obama administration. Why do you think you would be able to reign in this persistent threatening?
Joe Biden:
Because I’d make it clear, which we were making clear to China, they had to be part of the deal, because I made it clear as a spokesperson for the illustration when I went to China that I said, “Why are you moving your missile defense up so close? Why are you moving more forces here? Why are you continue to do military maneuvers with South Korea?” I said, “Because North Korea is a problem, and we’re going to continue to do it so we can control them. We’re going to make sure we can control them and make sure they can not hurt us. And so if you want to do something about it, step up and help. If not, it’s going to continue.” What has he done? He’s legitimized North Korea. He’s talked about his good buddy, who’s a thug, a thug. And he talks about how we’re better off. And they have much more capable missiles, able to reach us territory much more easily than they ever did before.
Kristen Welker:
Let me follow up with you, Vice President Biden. You’ve said you wouldn’t meet with Kim Jong-un without preconditions. Are there any conditions under which you would meet with him?
Joe Biden:
On the condition that he would agree that he would be drawing down his nuclear capacity. The Korean Peninsula should be a nuclear free zone.
Kristen Welker:
All right. Let’s move on to American families.
Donald Trump:
Kristen.
Kristen Welker:
Very quickly, 10 seconds, President Trump.
Donald Trump:
They tried to meet with him. He wouldn’t do it. He didn’t like Obama. He didn’t like him. He wouldn’t do it.
Kristen Welker:
Okay, I’ve got to give him a chance to respond to that before we move on.
Donald Trump:
I know for a fact. They tried. We wouldn’t do it. And that’s okay. You know what? North Korea, we’re not in a war. We have a good relationship. People don’t understand. Having a good relationship with leaders of other countries is a good thing.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, we have to move on, because we have a lot of questions to get to. Your response.
Joe Biden:
We had a good relationship with Hitler before he, in fact, invaded Europe, the rest of Europe. Come on. The reason he would not meet with President Obama is because President Obama said, “We’re going to talk about denuclearization. We’re not going to legitimize you and we’re going to continue to push stronger and stronger sanctions on you.” That’s why he wouldn’t meet with us.
Kristen Welker:
All right, let’s move on.
Donald Trump:
And it didn’t happen.
Kristen Welker:
Let’s move on and talk about American families.
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. He left me a mess. Kristen.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump. Okay
Donald Trump:
They left me a mess. North Korea was a mess, and in fact, if you remember the first two or three months. It was a very dangerous period in my first three months before we worked things out a little bit.
Kristen Welker:
Okay.
Donald Trump:
There was a very day. They left us a mess, and Obama would be, I think, the first to say it, was the single biggest problem he thought that our country [crosstalk].
Kristen Welker:
Okay, let’s move on to American families and the economy. One of the issues that’s most important to them is healthcare, as you both know. Today, there was a key vote on a new Supreme Court Justice, Amy Coney Barrett, and healthcare is at the center of her confirmation fight. Over 20 million Americans get their health insurance through the Affordable Care Act. It’s headed to the Supreme Court and your administration, Mr. President, is advocating for the court to overturn it. If the Supreme Court does overturn that law, there’s 20 million Americans could lose their health insurance almost overnight. So what would you do if those people have their health insurance taken away? You have two minutes uninterrupted.
Donald Trump:
First of all, I’ve already done something that nobody thought was possible. Through the legislature, I terminated the individual mandate. That is the worst part of Obamacare, as we call it. The individual mandate where you have to pay a fortune for the privilege of not having to pay for bad health insurance, I terminated. It’s gone. Now, it’s in court, because Obamacare is no good. But then I made a decision, run it as well as you can, to my people, great people, run it as well as you can. I could have gone the other route and made everybody very unhappy. They ran it. Premiums are down. Everything’s down. Here’s the problem. No matter how well you run it, it’s no good. What we’d like to do is terminate it. We have the individual mandate done. I don’t know that it’s going to work. If we don’t win, we will have to run it and we’ll have Obamacare, but it’ll be better run. But it no longer is Obamacare, because without the individual mandate, it’s much different.
Donald Trump:
Pre-existing conditions will always stay. What I would like to do is a much better healthcare, much better. We’ll always protect people with pre-existing. So I’d like to terminate Obamacare, come up with a brand new, beautiful healthcare. The Democrats will do it, because there’ll be tremendous pressure on them. And we might even have the House by that time. And I think we’re going to win the House. You’ll see, but I think we’re going to win the House. But come up with a better healthcare, always protecting people with pre-existing conditions. And one thing very important, we have 180 million people out there that have great private healthcare. Far more than we’re talking about with Obamacare. Joe Biden is going to terminate all of those policies. These are people that love their healthcare. People that have been successful, middle-income people, been successful. They have 180 million plans, 180 million people, families. Under what he wants to do, which will basically be socialized medicine, he won’t even have a choice, they want to terminate 180 million plans. We have done an incredible job at healthcare, and we’re going to do even better. Just you watch.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. Vice President Biden, yes, this is for you. Your healthcare plan calls for building on Obamacare. So my question is, what is your plan if the law is ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court? You have two minutes uninterrupted.
Joe Biden:
What I’m going to do is pass Obamacare with a public option, and become Bidencare. The public option is an option that says that if you in fact do not have the wherewithal, if you qualify for Medicaid and you do not have the wherewithal in your state to get Medicaid, you automatically are enrolled, providing competition for insurance companies. That’s what’s going to happen. Secondly, we’re going to make sure we reduce the premiums and reduce drug prices by making sure that there’s competition, that doesn’t exist now, by allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices with the insurance companies. Thirdly, the idea that I want to eliminate private insurance, the reason why I had such a fight with 20 candidates for the nomination was I support private insurance. That’s why. Not one single person with private insurance would lose their insurance under my plan, nor did they under Obamacare. They did not lose their insurance unless they chose they wanted to go to something else.
Joe Biden:
Lastly, we’re going to make sure we’re in a situation that we actually protect pre-existing. There’s no way he can protect pre-existing conditions. None, zero. You can’t do it in the ether. He’s been talking about this for a long time. He’s never come up with a plan. I guess we’re going to get the pre-existing condition plan the same time we got the infrastructure plan that we waited for since ’17, ’18, ’19, and 20. I still have a few more minutes. I know you’re getting anxious. The fact is that he’s already cost the American people, because of his terrible handling of the COVID virus and economic spillover. 10 million people have lost their private insurance, and he wants to take away 22 million more people who have it under Obamacare and over 110 million people with pre-existing conditions. And all the people from COVID are going to have pre-existing conditions, what are they going to do?
Kristen Welker:
I have a follow-up for you Vice President Biden. It relates to something that President Trump said. He’s accusing you of wanting socialized medicine. What do you say to people who have concerns that your healthcare plan, which includes a government insurance option, takes-
Kristen Welker:
Concerns that your healthcare plan, which includes a government insurance option, takes the country one step closer to a healthcare system run entirely by the government. What’s your response to that?
Joe Biden:
I say it’s ridiculous. It’s like saying that the fact that there’s a public option that people can choose, that makes it a socialist plan. Look, the difference between the president and I… I think healthcare is not a privilege, it’s a right. Everyone should have the right to have affordable healthcare, and I am very proud of my plan. It’s gotten endorsed by all the major labor unions, as well as a whole range of other people who, in fact, are concerned in the medical field. This is something that’s going to save people’s lives. And this is going to give some people an opportunity to have healthcare for their children. How many of you at home are worried and rolling around in bed tonight, wondering what in God’s name you’re going to do if you get sick, because you’ve lost your health insurance and your company’s gone under? We have to provide health insurance for people at an affordable rate, and that’s what I do.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump-
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. He was there-
Kristen Welker:
… your response.
Donald Trump:
… for 47 years. He didn’t do it. He was now there as vice president for eight years. And it’s not like it was 25 years ago. It was three and three quarters… It was just a little while ago, right? Less than four years ago. He didn’t do anything. He didn’t do it. He wants socialized medicine. And it’s not that he wants it. His vice president, she is more liberal than Bernie Sanders and wants it even more. Bernie Sanders wants it. The Democrats want it. You’re going to have socialized medicine, just like you want it with fracking. “We’re not going to have fracking. We’re going to stop fracking. We’re going to stop fracking.” Then he goes to Pennsylvania after he gets a nomination, where he got very lucky to get it. And he goes to Pennsylvania, and he says, “Oh, we’re going to have fracking.” And you never ask that question. And by the way, so far, I respect very much the way you’re handling this, I have to say.
Joe Biden:
By the way-
Donald Trump:
But somebody should ask the question.
Joe Biden:
You can ask it.
Donald Trump:
He goes for a year, there will be no fracking.
Kristen Welker:
We do have a number-
Donald Trump:
There will be no petroleum-
Kristen Welker:
We have a number of topics we’re going to get to.
Donald Trump:
No, no. But that’s a big question.
Kristen Welker:
We’re going to get to a number of topics-
Donald Trump:
It’s the same thing with socialized medicine.
Joe Biden:
I have to respond to healthcare.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President, your response please.
Joe Biden:
My response is, people deserve to have affordable healthcare, period. Period, period, period. And the Biden care proposal will in fact provide for that affordable healthcare, lower premiums. What we’re going to do is going to cost some money. It’s going to cost over $750 billion over 10 years to do it. And they’re going to have lower premiums. You can buy into the better plans, the cheaper plans, lower your premiums, deal with unexpected billing, and have your drug prices drop significantly. He keeps talking about it. He hasn’t done a thing for anybody on healthcare. Not a thing.
Donald Trump:
Kristen, when he says-
Kristen Welker:
Very quickly, then I want to talk about what’s happening on Capitol Hill.
Donald Trump:
When he says public option, he’s talking about socialized medicine and healthcare. When he talks about a public option, he’s talking about destroying your Medicare, totally destroying-
Joe Biden:
Wrong.
Donald Trump:
… and destroying your Social Security. And this whole country will come down. Bernie Sanders tried it in his state.
Joe Biden:
Bernie.
Donald Trump:
He tried it in his state. His governor was a very liberal governor. They wanted to make it work.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. Let’s hear-
Donald Trump:
It was impossible to work.
Kristen Welker:
Let’s let Vice President Biden respond-
Donald Trump:
It doesn’t work.
Joe Biden:
He’s a very confused guy. He thinks he’s running against somebody else. He’s running against Joe Biden. I beat all those other people because I disagreed with them. Joe Biden, he’s running against. And the idea that we’re in a situation that is going to destroy Medicare… This is the guy that the actuary of Medicare said, “If in fact…” That’s Social Security. “If in fact he continues his plan to withhold the tax on Social Security, Social Security will be bankrupt by 2023 with no way to make up for it.” This is the guy who’s tried to cut Medicare. The idea that Donald Trump is lecturing me on Social Security and Medicare? Come on.
Donald Trump:
He tried to get rid of-
Kristen Welker:
10 seconds, Mr. President, and then I have to go to another question.
Donald Trump:
He tried to hurt Social Security years ago. Years ago. Go back and look at the records. He tried to hurt Social Security years ago. One thing. But this is the guy-
Kristen Welker:
All right. Let’s move on. I’m going to move on.
Donald Trump:
… that when they announced last week-
Kristen Welker:
Mr. President, I have to move on to the next question or else we’re not going to have time to talk about it.
Donald Trump:
They say the stock market will boom if I’m elected. If he’s elected, the stock market will crash.
Donald Trump:
Excuse me-
Kristen Welker:
Please respond and then we’re going to have follow up questions.
Donald Trump:
If this stuff is true about Russia, Ukraine, China, other countries, Iraq. If this is true, then he’s a corrupt politician. So don’t give me the stuff about how you’re this innocent baby. Joe, that calling you a corrupt politician-
Joe Biden:
Nobody’s calling me-
Donald Trump:
They’re calling it the laptop from hell.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, I want to stay on the issue of race. We’re talking about the issue-
Donald Trump:
Excuse me, [crosstalk 00:06:13] the laptop from hell.
Joe Biden:
Nobody.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, we’re talking about race right now. And I do want to stay on the issue of race. President Trump you-
Joe Biden:
I have to respond to that. Because look-
Kristen Welker:
Please, very quickly.
Joe Biden:
There are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he’s accusing me of is a Russian plant. They have said that this has all the … five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he’s saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except him and his good friend, Rudy Giuliani.
Donald Trump:
You mean the laptop is now another Russia, Russia, Russia hoax? You got to be kidding me-
Joe Biden:
That’s exactly what was told.
Donald Trump:
This is where he’s going. The laptop is Russia, Russia, Russia?
Kristen Welker:
Gentlemen, I want to stay on the issue of race.
Donald Trump:
You have to be kidding, here we go again with the Russia. Boy, oh, boy.
Kristen Welker:
We’re going to continue on the issue of race.
Donald Trump:
Can’t believe that one.
Kristen Welker:
Mr. President you’ve described the Black Lives Matter movement as a symbol of hate. You’ve shared a video of a man chanting white power to millions of your supporters. You’ve said that black professional athletes exercising their First Amendment rights should be fired. What do you say to Americans who say that kind of language from a president is contributing to a climate of hate and racial strife?
Donald Trump:
Well, you have to understand the first time I ever heard of Black Lives Matter, they were chanting, “Pigs in a blanket,” talking about police, pigs, pigs, talking about our police. “Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon.” I said, “That’s a horrible thing.” And they were marching down the street. And that was my first glimpse of Black Lives Matter, I thought it was a terrible thing. As far as my relationships with all people, I think I have great relationships with all people. I am the least racist person in this room.
Kristen Welker:
What do you say to Americans who are concerned by that rhetoric [crosstalk ]?
Donald Trump:
I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what to say. I got criminal justice reform done and prison reform and Opportunity Zones-
Donald Trump:
… got criminal justice reform done, and prison reform, and Opportunity Zones, I took care of Black colleges and universities, I don’t know what to say, they can say anything, I mean, they can say anything. It’s a very… Makes me sad, because I am the least racist person, I can’t even see the audience because it’s so dark, but I don’t care who’s in the audience, I’m the least racist person in this room.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. Vice President Biden, let me ask you very quickly and then I have a follow-up question for you.
Joe Biden:
Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we’ve had in modern history, he pours fuel on every single racist fire, every single one. Started off his campaign coming down the escalator saying he’s getting rid of those Mexican rapists, he’s ban Muslims because they’re Muslims, he has moved around and made everything worse across the board. He says to… About the Proud Boys, last time we were on stage here he said, “I tell them to stand down and stand ready.” Come on, this guy has a dog whistle about as big as a foghorn.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, I’m going to give you 10 seconds to respond and then I have a follow-up question.
Donald Trump:
No, he made a reference to Abraham Lincoln, where did that come in? I mean-
Joe Biden:
You said you’re Abraham Lincoln.
Donald Trump:
… where did that….. No.
Joe Biden:
You said-
Donald Trump:
I said, “Not since Abraham Lincoln has anybody done what I’ve done for the Black community.”
Joe Biden:
And I’m saying-
Donald Trump:
I didn’t say, “I’m Abraham Lincoln,” I said, “Not since Abraham Lincoln has anybody done what I’ve done for the Black community.” Now, you have done nothing other than the Crime Bill, which put-
Joe Biden:
Oh, God.
Donald Trump:
Tens of thousands of Black men, mostly, in jail.
Joe Biden:
Not true.
Kristen Welker:
All right, let me ask Vice President Biden a question.
Donald Trump:
And you know what? They remember it because if you look at what’s happening with the voting right now, they remember that you treated them very, very badly, just take a look at what’s happening out there.
Kristen Welker:
Let me ask Vice President Biden about… Vice President Biden, let me give you a chance to respond within this context, crime bills that you supported in the ’80s and ’90s contributed to the incarceration of tens of thousands of young Black men who had small amounts of drugs in their possession, they are sons, they are brothers, they are fathers, they are uncles, whose families are still to this day, some of them suffering the consequences. So, speak to those families, why should they vote for you?
Joe Biden:
One of the things is that in the ’80s we passed 100 percent, all 100 senators voted for a bill on drugs and how to deal with drugs, it was a mistake. I’ve been trying to change since then particularly the portion on cocaine. That’s why I’ve been arguing that in fact we should not send anyone to jail for a pure drug offense, they should be going into treatment across the board, that’s what we should be spending money. And that’s why I set up drug courts which were never funded by our Republican friends. They should not be going to jail for a drug or an alcohol problem, they should be going into treatment. That’s what we’ve been trying to do, that’s what I’m going to get done because I think the American people have now seen that in fact it was a mistake to pass those laws relating to drugs, but they were not in the Crime Bill.
Kristen Welker:
[crosstalk].
Donald Trump:
But, why didn’t he get it done? See, it’s all talk, no action with these politicians, why didn’t he get it? “That’s what I’m going to do when I become president.” You were vice president along with Obama as your president, your leader, for eight years, why didn’t you get it done? You had eight years to get it done, now you’re saying you’re going to get it done because you’re all talking and no action, Joe.
Kristen Welker:
Your response.
Joe Biden:
We got a lot of it done. We released 38,000-
Donald Trump:
You didn’t get anything done.
Joe Biden:
We got 38,000 prisoners [ crosstalk ]-
Donald Trump:
You got nothing done.
Joe Biden:
38,000 prisoners were released from federal prison, we have… There were over a thousand people who were given clemency. [inaudible ]. In fact, were the ones that put in the legislation saying we could look at pattern and practice of police departments and what they were doing, how they’re conducting themselves. I could go on, but we began the process, we lost an election, that’s why I’m running to win back that election and change his terrible policy.
Donald Trump:
I just have-
Kristen Welker:
Your response and then we’re going to move on to climate change.
Donald Trump:
… one question, why didn’t you do it in the eight years, a short time ago? Why didn’t you do it? You just said, “I’m going to do that, I’m going to do this.” You put tens of thousands of mostly Black young men in prison, now you’re saying you’re going to get… You’re going to undo that, why didn’t you get it done? You had eight years with Obama. You know why, Joe? Because you’re all talk and no action.
Joe Biden:
crosstalk
Kristen Welker:
All right, Vice President Biden, and then we’re going to move on to the next section.
Joe Biden:
We had a Republican Congress, that’s the answer.
Kristen Welker:
Okay.
Donald Trump:
Well, you got to talk them into it, Joe, sometimes you got to talk them into it.
Kristen Welker:
We’re going to move on to our next section which is climate change.
Donald Trump:
… like I did with criminal justice reform, I had to talk Democrats into it.
Joe Biden:
You did what we already had done.
Kristen Welker:
Gentlemen, we’re running out of time so we got to get onto climate change, please. You both have very different visions on climate change. President Trump, you say that environmental regulations have hurt jobs in the energy sector, Vice President Biden, you have said you see addressing climate change as an opportunity to create new jobs. For each of you, how would you both combat climate change and support job growth at the same time? Starting with you, President Trump, you have two minutes uninterrupted.
Donald Trump:
So, we have the trillion trees program, we have so many different programs, I do love the environment, but what I want is that cleanest crystal clear water, the cleanest air. We have the best lowest number in carbon emissions, which is a big standard that I noticed Obama goes with all the time, not Joe, I haven’t heard Joe use the term because I’m not sure he knows what it represents or means, but I have heard Obama use it. And we have the best carbon emission numbers that we’ve had in 35 years under this administration, we are working so well with industry, but here’s what we can’t do. Look at China, how filthy it is, look at Russia, look at India, it’s filthy, the air is filthy. The [Paris Accord ], I took us out because we were going to have to spend trillions of dollars and we were treated very unfairly.
Donald Trump:
When they put us in there, they did us a great disservice, they were going to take away our businesses. I will not sacrifice tens of millions of jobs, thousands and thousands of companies because of the Paris Accord, it was so unfair. China doesn’t kick in until 2030, Russia goes back to a low standard, and we kicked in right away, it would have been… It would have destroyed our businesses. So, you ready? We have done an incredible job environmentally, we have the cleanest air, the cleanest water, and the best carbon emission standards that we’ve seen in many, many years.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden-
Donald Trump:
And we haven’t destroyed our industries.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden, two minutes to you uninterrupted.
Joe Biden:
Climate change, global warming is an existential threat to humanity. We have a moral obligation to deal with it. And we’re told by all the leading scientists in the world we don’t have much time, we’re going to pass the point of no return within the next 8 to 10 years. Four more years of this man eliminating all the regulations that were put in by us to clean up the climate, to clean up… To limit the emissions, will put us in a position where we’re going to be in real trouble. Here’s where we have a great opportunity. I was able to get both all the environmental organizations as well as the labor, the people worried about jobs, to support my climate plan.
Joe Biden:
Because what it does, it will create millions of new good paying jobs, we’re going to invest in, for example, 500,000… Excuse me, 50,000 charging stations on our highways so that we can own the electric car market of the future. In the meantime, China is doing that. We’re going to be in a position where we’re going to see to it that we’re going to take 4 million existing buildings and 2 million existing homes and retrofit them so they don’t leak as much energy, saving hundreds of millions of barrels of…
Joe Biden:
So they don’t leak as much energy saving hundreds of millions of barrels of oil in the process and creating significant number of jobs. By the way, the whole idea of what this is all going to do, it’s going to create millions of jobs and it’s going to clean the environment. Our health and our jobs are at stake. That’s what’s happening and what right now, by the way, Wall Street firms indicated that my plan, my plan will in fact, create 18.6 million jobs, 7 million more than his. This is from Wall Street and I’ll create $1 trillion more in economic growth than his proposal does. Not on climate, just on economy.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump, your response.
Donald Trump:
They came out and said very strongly $6,500 will be taken away from families under his plan, that his plan is an economic disaster. If you look at what he wants to do, if you look at his plan, his-
Joe Biden:
crosstalk
Donald Trump:
… his environmental plan, do you know developed it? AOC plus three, they know nothing about the climate. I mean, she’s got a good line of stuff, but she knows nothing about the climate and they’re all hopping through hoops for AOC plus three. Look, their real plan cost a hundred trillion dollars. If we had the best year in the history of our country for a hundred years, we would not even come close to a number like that. When he says buildings, they want to take buildings down because they want to make bigger windows into smaller windows. As far as they’re concerned, if you had no window, it would be a lovely thing.
Donald Trump:
This is the craziest plan that anybody has ever seen and this wasn’t done by smart people. This wasn’t done by anybody. Frankly, I don’t even know how it can be good politically. They want to spend a hundred trillion dollars. That’s their real number. He’s trying to say it was six. It’s a hundred trillion dollars. They want to knock down buildings and build new buildings with little, tiny, small windows and many other things-
Kristen Welker:
Okay.
Donald Trump:
And many other things. And many other things.
Kristen Welker:
Okay, let me have the vice-president respond.
Donald Trump:
It is crazy.
Kristen Welker:
We’re running out of time and we have a lot more questions to get back to.
Donald Trump:
You’ll destroy our country.
Kristen Welker:
So let’s hear from the vice president. I have a number of more question..
Joe Biden:
I don’t know where he comes from. I don’t know where he comes up with these numbers.
Kristen Welker:
Queens.
Joe Biden:
A hundred trillion dollars, give me a break. This plan has been endorsed by every major, every major environmental group and every labor group, labor, because they know the future lies. The future lies in us being able to breathe and they know they’re good jobs and getting us there.
Joe Biden:
By the way, the fastest growing industry in America is the electric, excuse me, solar energy and wind. He thinks wind causes cancer, windmills. It’s the fastest growing jobs and they pay good prevailing wages, 45, 50 bucks an hour. We can grow and we can be cleaner if we go the route I’m proposing.
Kristen Welker:
President Trump-
Donald Trump:
Excuse me.
Kristen Welker:
Please respond and then I have his follow up.
Donald Trump:
We are energy independent for first time. We don’t need all of these countries that we had to fight war over because we needed their energy. We are energy independent. I know more about wind than you do. It’s extremely expensive. Kills all the birds. It’s very intermittent. It’s got a lot of problems and they happen to make the windmills in both Germany and China and the fumes coming up, if you’re a believer in carbon emission, the fumes coming up to make these massive windmills is more than anything that we’re talking about with natural gas, which is very clear.
Donald Trump:
One other thing, solar-
Joe Biden:
Find me a scientist who says that.
Donald Trump:
I love solar, but solar doesn’t quite have it yet. It’s not powerful yet to really run our big, beautiful factories that we need to compete with the world.
Joe Biden:
False.
Donald Trump:
It’s all a pipe dream, but you know what we’ll do? We’re going to have the greatest economy in the world, but if you want to kill the economy, get rid of your oil industry you want. And what about fracking?
Kristen Welker:
Let me-
Donald Trump:
Now we have to ask him about fracking.
Kristen Welker:
Let me allow the Vice President Biden to respond.
Joe Biden:
I never said I oppose fracking.
Donald Trump:
You said it on tape.
Joe Biden:
Show the tape, put it on your website.
Donald Trump:
I’ll put it on.
Joe Biden:
Put it on the website. The fact of the matter is he’s flat lying.
Kristen Welker:
Would you rule out about banning fracking?
Joe Biden:
I do rule out banning fracking because the answer we need, we need other industries to transition, to get to ultimately a complete zero emissions by 2025. What I will do with fracking over time is make sure that we can capture the emissions from the fracking, capture the emissions from gas. We can do that and we can do that by investing money in doing it, but it’s a transition to that.
Kristen Welker:
I have one more question in this pile then-
Donald Trump:
Excuse me. He was against fracking. He said it. I will show that to you tomorrow.
Joe Biden:
Good.
Donald Trump:
I am against fracking. Until he got the nomination, he went to Pennsylvania. Then he said, “But you know what Pennsylvania?” He’ll be against it very soon because his party is totally against it.
Joe Biden:
Fracking on federal land. I said, no fracking and/or oil on federal land.
Kristen Welker: )
Let me ask this final question in this section and then I want to move on to our final section. President Trump, people of color are much more likely to live near oil refineries and chemical plants. In Texas, there are families who worry the plants near them are making them sick. Your administration has rolled back regulations on these kinds of facilities. Why should these families give you another four years in office?
Donald Trump:
The families that we’re talking about are employed heavily and they are making a lot of money, more money than they’ve ever made. If you look at the kind of numbers that we’ve produced for Hispanic, for Black, for Asian, it’s nine times greater the percentage gain than it was under in three years than it was under eight years of the two of them to put it nicely, nine times more.
Donald Trump:
Now somebody lives, I have not heard the numbers or the statistics that you’re saying, but they’re making a tremendous amount of money. Economically, we saved it and I saved it again a number of months ago, when oil was crashing because of the pandemic. We saved it.
Donald Trump:
Say what you want to bet relationship. We got Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Russia to cut back, way back. We saved our oil industry and now it’s very vibrant again and everybody has very inexpensive gasoline. Remember that.
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden, your response and then we’re going to have a final question for both of you.
Joe Biden:
My response is that those people live on what they call fence lines. He doesn’t understand this. They live near chemical plants that in fact, pollute, chemical plants and oil plants and refineries that pollute.
Joe Biden:
I used to live near that when I was growing up in Claymont, Delaware and there are more oil refineries in Marcus Hook and the Delaware River than there is any place, including in Houston at the time. When my mom get in the car and when there are first frost to drive me to school, turning the windshield wiper, there’d been oil slick in the window. That’s why so many people in my state were dying and getting cancer. The fact is those frontline communities, it’s not a matter of what you’re paying them. It matters how you keep them safe. What do you do? You impose restrictions on the pollutions that if the pollutants coming out of those fence line communities.
Kristen Welker:
Okay. I have one final question called.
Donald Trump:
Would he close down the oil industry?
Kristen Welker:
It falls-
Donald Trump:
Would you close dow the oil industry?
Joe Biden:
By the way, I have a transition from the old industry, yes.
Donald Trump:
Oh, that’s a big statement.
Joe Biden:
I will transition. It is a big statement.
Donald Trump:
That’s a big statement.
Joe Biden:
Because I would stop.
Kristen Welker:
Why would you do that?
Joe Biden:
Because the oil industry pollutes, significantly.
Donald Trump:
Oh, I see. Okay.
Joe Biden:
Here’s the deal-
Donald Trump:
That’s a big statement.
Joe Biden:
Well if you let me finish the statement, because it has to be replaced by renewable energy over time, over time, and I’d stopped giving to the oil industry, I’d stop giving them federal subsidies. You won’t get federal subsidies to the gas, oh, excuse me to solar and wind.
Donald Trump:
Yeah.
Joe Biden:
Why are we giving it to oil industry?
Donald Trump:
We actually give it to solar and wind. That’s maybe the biggest statement. In terms of business, that’s the biggest statement.
Kristen Welker:
Okay.
Donald Trump:
Because basically what he’s saying is-
Kristen Welker:
We have one final question, Mr. President.
Donald Trump:
… he is going to destroy the oil industry. Will you remember that Texas? Will you remember that Pennsylvania, Oklahoma?
Kristen Welker:
Okay, Vice President Biden, let me give you 10 seconds.
Kristen Welker:
Okay.
Donald Trump:
Remember that Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, is-
Kristen Welker:
Vice President Biden, let me give you 10 seconds to respond-
Donald Trump:
Ohio.
Kristen Welker:
… and then I have to get to the final question. Vice President Biden.
Joe Biden:
He takes everything out of context, but the point is, look, we have to move toward net zero emissions. The first place to do that by the year 2035 is in energy production, by 2050 totally.
Kristen Welker:
All right. One final question to both of you-
Donald Trump:
Is he going to get China to do it?
Kristen Welker:
No, we’re finished with this-
Donald Trump:
Is he going to get China to do it?
Kristen Welker:
We have to move onto our final question.
Joe Biden:
No, I’m going to rejoin Paris Accord and make China abide by what they agreed to.
Donald Trump:
Crosstalk
Kristen Welker:
All right. This is about leadership, gentlemen. And this first question does go to you, President Trump. Imagine this is your inauguration day. What will you say in your address, to Americans who did not vote for you? You’ll each have one minute, starting with you, Mr. Trump.
Donald Trump:
We have to make our country totally successful, as it was prior to the plague coming in from China. Now we’re rebuilding it and we’re doing record numbers, 11.4 million jobs in a short period of time, et cetera. But, I will tell you, go back.
Donald Trump:
Before the plague came in, just before, I was getting calls from people that were not normally people that would call me. They wanted to get together. We had the best Black unemployment numbers in the history of our country. Hispanic, women, Asian, people with diplomas, with no diplomas, MIT graduates; number one in the class, everybody had the best numbers. And you know what? The other side wanted to get together. They wanted to unify.
Donald Trump:
Success is going to bring us together. We are on the road to success. But I’m cutting taxes, and he wants to raise everybody’s taxes and he wants to put new regulations on everything. He will kill it. If he gets in, you will have a Depression, the likes of which you’ve never seen. Your 401(k)s will go to hell, and it’ll be a very, very sad day for this country.
Kristen Welker:
All right. Vice President Biden, same question to you: what will you say during your inaugural address to Americans who did not vote for you?
Joe Biden:
I will say, I’m an American President. I represent all of you, whether you voted for me or against me, and I’m going to make sure that you’re represented. I’m going to give you hope. We’re going to move; we’re going to choose science over fiction. We’re going to choose hope over fear. We’re going to choose to move forward because we have enormous opportunities, enormous opportunities to make things better.
Joe Biden:
We can grow this economy, we can deal with the systemic racism. At the same time, we can make sure that our economy is being run and moved and motivated by clean energy, creating millions of new jobs. That’s the fact, that’s what we’re going to do. And I’m going to say, as I said at the beginning, what is on the ballot here is the character of this country. Decency, honor, respect. Treating people with dignity, making sure that everyone has an even chance. And I’m going to make sure you get that. You haven’t been getting it the last four years.
Kristen Welker:
All right, I want to thank you both for a very robust hour and a half, a fantastic debate. Really appreciate it. President Trump, Former Vice President Joe Biden. Thank you to Belmont University for hosting us tonight, and most importantly, thank you to those watching tonight. Election day is November 3rd. Don’t forget to vote. Thank you everyone and have a great night.
Joe Biden:
Thank you.
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